Politics.

[icebluenothing]

Not something I post about often, if at all, usually, but ....

I'm a little startled at how many people on my friends list are so elated at the capture of Saddam Hussein. I mean, especially since so many of them are the same people who will be highly irritated if Bush rides to re-election on the strength of this particular little victory. Saddam Imprisoned is an even better photo-op than Bush Delivering Turkey, kids.

The first post I read about it didn't mention just who exactly we'd captured, and I have to admit I was stupidly hopeful for a moment. For a brief moment, I thought we'd laid hands on Osama bin Laden. And then I remembered we are at war with Eastasia; we have always been at war with Eastasia.

Comments

apples and pomegranates

[vorona.livejournal.com]

As I see it, my detesting Saddam Hussein
is completely separated from my disapproval
of George Bush. I don't like either of them,
and I hope Bush loses, of course. But Saddam
is a tyrant, a criminal, and I'm glad he's done.

Re: apples and pomegranates

[luchog.livejournal.com]

Amen. Just because he doesn't happen to be the guy who engineered the WTC attack doesn't mean he isn't a vile monster, himself responsible for funding and training numerous terrorist groups, who needs to be done away with.

I seem to recall, from reading elsewhere, that there is very strong circumstantial evidence linking Hussein and Al Qaeda, at least as far as providing training facilities.

Re: apples and pomegranates

[rimrunner.livejournal.com]

What vorona said. My opinion of Bush has little to do with my opinion of Saddam, whom I've wanted gone since the first Gulf War.

[icprncs.livejournal.com]

I'm aware of this factor. (I also wouldn't say I'm "elated," just glad we don't have to expend any more troop power and risk on this particular objective.) My view is: better now than nine months from now. And I don't believe it's going to make much difference in the violence in Iraq--if anything, I think it's likely to lead to at least a short-term surge in guerilla activity. And how long are the folks home going to betolerant if our boys keep dying even after the tyrannical nutjob has been caught?

It's not over till it's over, and I don't think it's anywhere near over politcally.

[rocza.livejournal.com]

And then I remembered we are at war with Eastasia; we have always been at war with Eastasia.
Pretty much my thoughts on the matter.

Then again, I'm not much one for deciding that a political or religious leader should be removed because someone has declared him a bad guy. After all, numerous religious leaders have made similar bad guy declarations against Bush, and Americans would be infuriated if someone decided that, for the health of the country and the world, he (and his cronies) should be captured and/or killed.

[chiaspod.livejournal.com]

Ooh, relativism is SO sexy on you, K.

As for the "we are at war with Eastasia" comment ... broaden your news sources. The Coalition forces haven't stopped seeking in Afghanistan; it's just that most media outlets have apparently decided that Afghanistan is no longer sexy enough to sell. One of the benefits of my job is I have access to the AP news feed - and I've not noticed a dearth of news coming across; it just doesn't get printed. :)

[rocza.livejournal.com]

Oh, you know as well as I do that it's not moral relativism. I simply hold a pretty firm line on when and where I think it's appropriate to become involved with the politics of another nation. Was Saddam a monster? Certainly; only a moral relativist would try to argue otherwise. But just because someone is a monster doesn't justify invasion and overthrow of a government.

As for the Eastasia bit - I've long stopped worrying about what mainstream American news outlets decide to publish. You're not the only one with global access to news sources, after all. However, I don't much care what the media feels we should be paying attention to, but I certainly pay attention to what the government focuses its attentions on. Slight of hands are interesting to watch, but that doesn't mean I need to follow them. Iraq has been pushed to the forefront of attention, and I don't believe that's solely because the media chooses to focus on it.

[chiaspod.livejournal.com]

Would it make you happier if I posted an entry about how elated I am that we caught Saddam? :)

[lovecraftcomplex]

I thought he was dead. I really did.

[bork.livejournal.com]

I wasn't elated. I honestly was more stunned than anything. Playing Morrowind for a couple hours, then getting confronted by the Real World of News, was a bit surreal. I heard about it right when it was announced last night around 2am, and I just got up, so maybe it hasn't been processed yet.

My main thought is 'Good - can we bring the troops home now?!'

[rimrunner.livejournal.com]

I suspect paladyn would really like to ship back home at this point.

It's funny how celebratory gunfire sounds a lot like getting shot at. (Which is tangential to the main point, here, but is a big reason why I'm still worried--it's going to be a little while before this makes a real difference on the ground, I think.)

[01flux.livejournal.com]

Thats funny, I nearly the exact same reaction.

[sistawendy.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I thought about the boost for Bush, but fewer deaths are a Good Thing. Besides, the election's still nearly a year away and Dubya has never been invincible.

[marssaxman.livejournal.com]

I'm having a hard time caring much about this. Sure, he used to be a terrible dictator, but he's been unemployed for a while now, and life for the Iraqis doesn't seem to have improved. The world is still full of terrible dictators doing awful things to innocent people, and the president is still an ass-headed imperialistic corporate toady. All this capture means is that the U.S. can now put on a show trial, which will be a colossal PR-driven farce if the Bush administration runs it and a lesser (though especially ironic) farce if the ICC runs it. The military situation in Iraq is not going to become any more stable, since the insurgency has been about the U.S. occupation all along and not about Saddam Hussein as the "grateful Iraqis will welcome us with flowers" Bush administration has been telling us (and perhaps themselves) since "major combat operations" wrapped up months ago.

Hussein has been a sideshow for the last two years. The pre-invasion propaganda played up his depravity, but if he had not existed the administration would have simply invented him as they invented his nuclear weapons program. Bush's PR operation will undoubtedly play the capture for all it is worth, but it changes nothing about Iraq or the rest of the world and is essentially meaningless.

-Mars

[ilion.livejournal.com]

I think you're right that it won't lead to instant peace like some would like to believe. It may have some effect, but I wouldn't bet on it either way - time will tell. From what I understand a lot of the problems are caused by terrorists fromo utside Iraq coming in, so I doubt they care much one way or the other.

I do think that his capture is a good thing. Otherwise I expect he would have eventually come back in some way or other to cause trouble.

[thedivas.livejournal.com]

Not elated. Relieved that part of it is over. Apprehensive and curious about what happens next.